Some Reasons Not To Ask Jesus Into Your Heart
Pastor Dennis Rokser was curious one day, so he asked his congregation how many of them had "asked Jesus into their hearts." To his surprise, around 60% of them had done this at some point in their life (although he had never taught it). Then he asked how many of them had gained assurance of their salvation at a later date. The vast majority raised their hands again. After reading of his experiences, I decided to ask around to see if I would get the same results, and sure enough, I did.This past summer I was a counselor at a bible camp, and as I reflect back, I can remember several times when a kid would respond to an invitation to "ask Jesus into your heart." Our camp kept track of any decisions the kids made, so I knew if it was a camper's first time or not. Often, kids who had prayed for "salvation" and had dedicated their lives to Christ several times would come forward and want to do it again. I would check the decision sheet, and see that it was their 3rd or 4th time coming forward, and so the conversation usually went like this:
Me: So why did you come to me?
Camper: I want to ask Jesus into my heart.
Me: Well, you know the Bible says that if you believe in what Jesus Christ did for you, then you are already saved. Have you ever prayed before?
Camper: Yeah.
Me: What did you pray for?
Camper: I asked Jesus into my heart.
Me: So why do you want to pray again?
Camper: I'm scared... I'm not sure if it worked.
That explains it all! The reason the camper didn't have assurance is because the camper didn't have salvation. His expressed fears revealed where his faith rested. The camper wasn't sure if "it" worked; and it didn't. The camper had good reason to be worried, because he was trusting in his prayer to save him. When he said "I'm not sure if it worked", you can be assured that he wasn't talking about the sacrifice of Jesus. Lets look at some biblical reasons why you shouldn't "ask Jesus into your heart."
1) "Asking Jesus into your heart" confuses the issues. Many people hold that this cliché is helpful in explaining salvation to young children. Pastor Rokser points out, however, that children often take things very literally, and have difficulty with abstract ideas. He wrote, "[Children] understand 'ball', 'dog', and 'hat' before they understand 'death', 'hell', and 'salvation'. When confronted with an appeal to ask Jesus into their heart, they are prone to imagine Christ in bodily form somehow living in the organ that pumps our blood." He shares a story of a young girl who leaned against her mother's chest and said:
Girl: Mom, I hear Jesus in your heart.
Mom: Really, honey. What is Jesus doing?
Girl: Oh, He's just perking coffee.
On top of the confusion that it causes children, I challenge any adult to sit down and analyze exactly what the cliché is saying. Every adult that I have asked to explain what the term means ends up saying something like "It means that you believe that Jesus died for you." Hold on! That is in NO way the same thing. One says "Jesus died for our sins," and the other says "Ask Jesus into your heart." That's the same thing? Todd Friel points out the confusion well:
2) Telling people they need to "ask Jesus into their heart" changes the biblical center of faith. Justification comes through faith in what Christ has done for you. Faith placed in ANYTHING else, no matter how "christianeese" it sounds will not save you. I remember pleading with God as a child that he would come into my heart. I remember being told that unless He's in your heart, then you cannot go to heaven. Consequently, I asked Him into my heart over and over again. I really, really, really wanted Him to come into my heart. Eventually, I comforted myself with the idea that I had asked so many times that one of the times I must have meant it enough. People had given me a false assurance by telling me that if I just said the prayer, and really meant it, then I would go to heaven; and so I said the prayer; and I really did mean it! I really did want to go to heaven, but I had never placed my faith in Jesus Christ.
Here is another way to explain it. You stand guilty before a judge, and a $500,000 fine hangs over your head. You have no money. The judge says to you, "I am about to pass sentence, you either pay the fine, or I have to send you away to jail. Do you have any last words?" You could tell the judge, "Yeah! Judge, I asked you into my heart!" The judge would laugh at you. You "asking the judge" into your heart would be meaningless. So in the same way, asking Jesus into your heart is NOT grounds for justification. You would still stand guilty before God. Imagine though, you say to the Judge, "I have a very good friend, and he is willing to pay my fine for me." Your friend steps in and pays the $500,000 fine. Then justice has been served, the law is fulfilled, and you are free to go. So it is with Jesus, the only way we can be made just in his sight is not to ask the judge into our heart, but to trust that Jesus' blood was the check written out to pay our penalty of sin and death.
3) "Asking Jesus into your heart" confuses the means of salvation with the ends of salvation. Any true born-again believer does possess the indwelling of Jesus. So Jesus entering the hearts of believers is a legitimate result of salvation, but no one had EVER received this indwelling through "asking Jesus into their heart." Why not? Well, because there can be no indwelling outside of what is prescribed in scripture, and scripture clearly says that it comes through faith in Jesus Christ. More specifically, it comes through faith in the fact that Jesus Christ has paid for your sins with HIS blood. Anything outside of faith placed in this exact fact cannot result in "Jesus coming into your heart," because it isn't what God has said one must do!
Lets look at Galatians 4:6. It says "Because you are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of His Son into our hearts." In this verse, the means and the ends of salvation are very clear. God has sent forth the spirit of His Son into our hearts (end of salvation) because you are sons. So the indwelling is the direct result of becoming a son of God. You have to become a son first! How do we become sons of God? "But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become the children of God, to those who believe in his name" (John 1:12). "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you might have life through his name" (John 20:31). "For by grace you have been saved through faith..." (Eph 2:8). Trusting in Jesus Christ is the means of salvation, and it results in the end of salvation, the indwelling of Jesus in our hearts.
4) Telling people, "You have to ask Jesus into your heart in order to go to heaven" condemns real Christians. I can't remember the number of times that I have heard someone say "In order to be saved, you need to ask Jesus into your heart." If what these people were saying is true, then what happens to all those people who have simply obeyed the Gospel and put their trust in the blood of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins? If they simply believed, but didn't "say the prayer", are they all headed for Hell? What happened to all those people in Acts who came to repentance, believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and then were baptized in His name, but no mention of prayer was made?
Using these clichés often results in giving people false assurance, and actually hinders the gospel. Small pox was defeated by taking its cousin, cow pox, and infecting people. Cow pox was very similar to small pox, but it was much less potent. A person who got cow pox would recover from their infection quickly, and their body would become immune to the potent small pox. The church today is guilty of infecting people with an impotent gospel, and now when I try to preach the real Gospel, people are inoculated to it.
6) The Bible never teaches that we should "Ask Jesus into our hearts." This comes as a surprise to most people. It may be shocking, and it is definitely true. Never once will you see in scripture someone being led to ask Jesus into his/her heart. In fact, you cannot find one instance where a person is petitioned to even say a prayer to be saved. The whole concept of such a sinner's prayer is extra-biblical.
Many people would argue that Rev 3:20 is the supporting text for "asking Jesus into your heart." I have seen many tracts, including Billy Graham's "Steps to Peace with God" tracts that say Jesus is knocking at the door to your heart, then quote Revelation 3:20. Lets look at what this verse says: "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will sup with him, and he with me."
The verse says "I stand at the door." What door is Jesus standing at? Is it the door of my car? Is it my refrigerator door? Is it my garage door? To affirm that the verse says "I stand at the door [of your heart] and knock," is to read something into the verse that isn't there. We have just as much right to read it "I stand at the door [of your bedroom] and knock." The only way we can tell is to look at the verse in context.
Moving on in the verse, many people get confused when Jesus says "I will come in to him." They point to this as proof that we are to ask Jesus to come in. The verse, however, does not say "I will come into him," but "in to him." Again, the door Jesus is standing at is the door to the church, and so the verse reads "If anyone hears my voice and opens the door," (and this is the door of the whole church) then, "I will come in," (He will enter into fellowship); and where will Jesus go? "To him." To the person who opened the door to receive fellowship.
7) Don't tell people "You need to ask Jesus into your heart," because absolutely no one, at any time, has ever been saved by asking Jesus into their heart! Pastor Rokser wrote "Dear friends, I am convinced that NO ONE has ever been saved or received the assurance of their salvation by asking Jesus into his/her heart." The first time I read this I thought, "Ok, maybe that's taking it a little too far. No one?" But as I looked at the evidence, I too became convinced. He goes on to explain why, "Because there can be no salvation, nor assurance of salvation by something that is foreign to scripture." That's it! If the bible doesn't teach one can be saved by doing it, then one cannot be saved by doing it.
The only remedy for our sin that is ever presented in the Bible is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and what He did... "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish..." (John 3:16)
Assurance of salvation is received though the exact same thing! 1 John 5:11-13 says: "And this is the record, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that you man know that you have eternal life, and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God."
Now this does not mean that every person who has asked Jesus into their hearts is not saved. There are probably countless people who have been saved when they asked Jesus into their hearts, despite them using the confusing cliché. The reason they were saved, however, was not because they "asked Jesus into their heart," but because they believed on Jesus Christ, and his blood for the forgiveness of sin...
Closing Thoughts...
I couldn't have summarized a final appeal better than Pastor Rokser did:



33 Comments:
God does not exist, it is an illusion, you know? it is a way to feel better, like when you believed in santa claus.
First of all, your statement is blatantly presumptuous. Because it is an absolute statement, it implies that you have absolute knowledge. Because you do not have absolute knowledge, you cannot make such a statement in truth... You can say, "I don't believe that God exists", but you cannot say "God does not exist".
Secondly, your statement shows ignorance to the truth about God and those who come to Him, through faith in Jesus Christ. One must repent, in order to come to God through Christ. Repentance does not make someone feel better. Nor does the prospect of judgment, and hell. Sure, some create a "god" to pacify themselves, but that is not the God who created the universe, and who revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ. Those who follow Him, by faith, are working out there salvation with "fear and trembling".
Lastly, the Scriptures say that "all have sinned". This includes you. When you've lied, stolen, looked with lust, desired things that didn't belong to you, disobeyed your parents, and not put God first in your thoughts and affections, you have demonstrated that the Bible is true when it calls you a sinner. The punishment for sin is death, and hell. But God, Himself, paid the price for your sin... You broke the Law, Jesus Christ paid the fine. God accepted His payment, which was demonstrated when He raised Him from the dead...
He did all of this because He doesn't want you to go to hell. But in order for His payment to be credited to your account, you must repent and put your trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. This means that you no longer live for your self, but you live for Him. You live a life of obedience to Him, out of gratitude, knowing that you are a hell-deserving sinner who was saved through the suffering and death of Jesus Christ on the cross... And that He is the only way that you, and anyone else can ever be saved!
You're a filthy charlataan. Shame on you.
I'm assuming that you are the same person that made the earlier statements... If not, please correct me. Regardless, why do you say that I am a "charlatan"? Baseless accusations are easy to make, but impossible to substantiate. As far as my being "filthy" is concerned, I was filthy, but I have been washed in the blood of Jesus Christ. Although I am a hell-derserving sinner, I have been saved by the grace of God, through faith in the Lord Jesus... What about you?
James,
Don't you care that all of those tracts will have to be reprinted, how can we have a fast altar call when I have to explain the real plan of salvation. If you will send me your love gift...
Thank God Jesus left room at the cross for us all.
H
Well, you could use those "love gifts" to print out some Scriptural tracts...
Yes but I want to focus on the positive not the negative, love gifts are for me, but I will ask the congregation for a special offering.
Jesus for pay is a full time job.
H
Lovely.
anonymous isn'st really interested in the truth, he just wants to make silly jokes. What a wimp....
While I agree with some of what you say, I had to cringe at your mentioning of Todd Friel. His for of Hate speech is what steers so many people away from religion. I recently emailed Todd after her told a caller that there is no difference in Gods eyes, between a lesbian couple in a loving relationship and a father who contunally rapes his young daught. Todd refused to apologize and instead to convince me that God is loving.
Thanks for your Blog.
Tim
I am not trying to steer people to religion, but to Jesus Christ... The loving homosexual is just as condemned as the pedofile rapist outside of Christ. And both of them are just as condemned as the little old lady that sits in the pew, week after week, but yet, has never truly come to Christ.
Because of our sin, it is only through Jesus Christ that anyone can, or will be saved. God demonstrated His love for sinners through what Jesus did on the cross. Even though we deserve God's justice, wrath, and punishment because of our sin, through His sacrifice, forgiveness has been made available, and the hope of salvation and eternal life has been extended...
Coming to Christ can only be done through repentance and faith. Repentance requires a change of heart, and a change of mind, which leads to a change of action. One must repent, and put one's trust in Jesus Christ, and what He did to be saved.
I do respect your opinion, but disagree. I happen to belong to a church that is 30 percent gay and lesbian. Our co paster is lesbian in fact. I refuse to belong to one of these all white all straight suburban churches, where people believe they are all high and mighty, while everyone else is going to hell. You can't claim that God is loving beyond understand AND justify him/her sending a person who has dedicated their life to doing what they feel is God's will and dieing to themselves to hell for being gay.
I emailed Todd Friel and thought I'd have to argue that gays can't change. To my surprised he agreed that most homosexuals cannot change their preference. So basically what he was saying is that if you are unlucky enough to be gay, you must spend the rest of your life alone.
Doesn't make sense to me. After months of listening to Todd I've determined that I'm agnostic. The God he describes I cannot relate to. I was raised a preachers kid and learned about this loving God. Todd doesn't have that same God.
Thanks
Hello Tim.
I have a couple of quick questions for you... Do you believe that God will judge murderers? Do you believe that He will He send them to Hell?...
I look forward to your response.
Well Tim,
I was making light of the modern church that thinks as long as I am in the pew I'm good to go. Maybe you are but where are you going? Don't know why you think I am a wimp, can't find any indicators in what I posted.
Godly sorrow leads to repentance if you don't know you are sinning how would you know to stop. That is why the bible states the rules that we will be judged by. There is only one rule that all of us must come to and that is Jesus. If you are in Christ should you continue to sin?
H
"I was making light of the modern church that thinks as long as I am in the pew I'm good to go. Maybe you are but where are you going? Don't know why you think I am a wimp, can't find any indicators in what I posted."
In all fairness, H, I'm not sure that it was Tim who made the comment about you being a wimp. The person who wrote that signed on as anonymous...
Good Morning James
Thanks for refending me. I definately didn't call anyone a wimp.
As far as your questions, I have to go back to one of your first comments on the blog..
"First of all, your statement is blatantly presumptuous. Because it is an absolute statement, it implies that you have absolute knowledge. Because you do not have absolute knowledge, you cannot make such a statement in truth"
This is how I feel about God and God's judgement. I really don't know if he/she exists and what if any judgement there will be. As a preachers kid I was made to feel shameful for doubting anything about the Bible. I'm done with feeling that way. The truth is that I have no clue. I used to pray everyday and I thought that I could feel God guiding me. After listening to Todd Friel I started to feel like I was hated by God. I realize that Todd isn't the best person to listen to. All Christians aren't that hateful. But it did have an affect on me.
Thanks
Tim
OOPS!!,
My mistake sorry.
Tim your confusion lies in your answer.
Heb 11:6 No one can please God without faith. Whoever goes to God must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
Until you truly understand that God exists your search would be confusing.
H
H
I've been seeking God all my life. That doesn't mean I know for sure that he/she exists. Even if I do believe that there is a God, there is no way to know which God is real. Like James said in his earlier post, now of us has absolute knowledge.
I read the Bible but end up so depressed at reading the message. I read where God said that women who wear fine jewelery should be stoned to death. When I asked my fundamentalist friend about this he argued that God was obviously talking about prostitutes. Well, I'm sorry, but I still find that cruel.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Tim,
If I go looking for a baseball and I don't believe it exists then I search in vain. First I must believe it exists so that I can find it. Searching for God without knowing He exists; how would you know you have found Him. First you must know he exists then the search will become fruitful. Where is the reference to the stoning her to death.
H
Hello Tim.
Thanks for writing back. As far as my question is concerned, I understand why you are hesitant in responding, but I'm sure that you already know the answer. Based on your earlier contrast between the loving homosexual and the child rapist, you have actually demonstrated that you already believe that there is a standard with God, and also, that He should hold men to account.
Regarding my statement about absolute knowledge, let me give you an example to more adequately define what I mean. If I make the statement, "there is no gold in China", I must then, of necessity, know that there is no gold anywhere in that entire country. I must have actual knowledge that there is no gold filling in any of the teeth in approximately 1 billion Chinese mouths, that there is no jewelry, anywhere in that country that has even a hint of gold in it, that there is no gold in any of the countless rocks in China, etc.
To make the statement, "there is gold in China" does not require that much knowledge. It only requires that I find evidence of one particulate of gold, anywhere in that country. If I was visiting China and stayed in a small town there for only a few days, but met a woman who lived there who was wearing a gold necklace, I could then say "there is gold in China", regardless of my knowledge of there being gold anywhere else. Do you see the difference? In the same way, to ask about the judgment of God is not the same as saying "there is no God". One just has to know what God has revealed, in order to accurately answer the question.
God has revealed, in his Word, that He must punish sin wherever it is found. This is because He is holy, and just. Imagine that you enter a laboratory where the scientists have a closed, sterilized environment with experiments open to the air. Such an environment requires each person entering that room to wear a special suit, and first be sterilized before they actually enter. Now imagine that you enter the room without the suit, and without being sterilized. All of the experiments would be ruined because this perfect, sterile environment has been compromised. In the same way, God cannot stand sin, nor can He allow it into His presence.
Because of this, through His indescribable mercy and love, God has provided a way for sinners to be made clean, and thus, allow them into His presence. Through the suffering and death of Jesus Christ on the cross, God satisfied His justice through Him, and the penalty for sin has been paid. Through repentance, and faith in Jesus Christ we can put on Christ and now enter into God's presence without His holiness and justice being compromised.
We must stop trying to make a god that suits our desires, and make our desires suitable to God. Think about what Jesus did on the cross, because of your sin, and rebellion. To say that God must allow unrepentant sin into His presence is not only to ignore the nature of God, but is also to reject His loving offer, and count the suffering and death of Jesus as insignificant.
I hope that you will take these words to heart, Tim. The Scriptures declare that it is appointed for man once to die, and after that to face judgment. Every breath we take could be our last. We are not guaranteed tomorrow. Don't gamble with your precious soul, but earnestly seek God, through Jesus Christ, with all of your heart. Repent (change the way that you think and act), and put your faith in the Lord Jesus.
May God be with you...
James
Thanks for the thoughtful responses James and H. It gave me some things to think about. I find myself in a state of mourning this Christmas season as I realize that I don't believe what I used to believe. I'd love for there to be a God. I don't however understanding what you mean H, when you say first I should just believe. That sounds like a cult to me. The fact is that I don't believe. I can't just make myself believe something. If I told you that there is a blue cow named Ed who's been watching you from afar, would you just believe me? NO.
And James I agree that I may some day come to the conclusion that there is a God. But you made a statement that I should search through Jesus Christ. Why pick Jesus when there are so many other Gods? And if there is one true God, why is it that when people search for God they all come up with a different God. I think there is a verse in the Bible that says that God will reveal himself to anyone who seeks him. If that's the case, why does he reveal himself so differently to people. The God of Todd Friel says that God is disgusted with me even when I do good and will be sending me and my children to burn in hell forever. I realize Todd doesn't reflect most Christians, but he even told me that a woman or gay person could not preach in his church. This is the kind of hate that turns me away from Christianity. Todd even pushes people to support George Bush, when he is a president who gladely accepts money from hate groups like the Christian Coalition. I bet if Bill Clinton had taken money from the KKK, people would be up in arms.
Those are my thoughts.
Thanks
Hi Tim,
Let's try again. You said a blue cow, first I have to believe there is a cow before I could look for a blue one. First you must believe there is a God before you can find the true one, I pray that God will open your eyes to see him.
H
H
My point exactly. You have to believe there is a blue cow before you can look for it. Same can be said for God. I have to believe there is a God first. How do I do that? And how many religions do I have to study before finding him or her. My friend suggested that I go through each religion and that I'll know when I've found the right one. So far I've scratched of Christianity and Islam. How will I know when to stop?
Tim
Tim,
Rom 1:20 From the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly observed in what he made. As a result, people have no excuse.
Rom 1:21 They knew God but did not praise and thank him for being God. Instead, their thoughts were pointless, and their misguided minds were plunged into darkness.
Rom 1:22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools.
Rom 1:23 They exchanged the glory of the immortal God for statues that looked like mortal humans, birds, animals, and snakes.
Rom 1:24 For this reason God allowed their lusts to control them. As a result, they dishonor their bodies by sexual perversion with each other.
Rom 1:25 These people have exchanged God's truth for a lie. So they have become ungodly and serve what is created rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen!
This is why God will judge the world, they are without excuse. Tim like it or not this is the God you will face on that day.
H
H.
Maybe you're right. Maybe Jesus is the one true God. Maybe he's not. I don't know. To say I first need to believe this, doesn't make sense to me. Obviously I can tell myself that something is the truth over and over until eventually I believe it to be so. I did that with religion. I'd listen to my dad's sermons every Sunday, read my Bible, teach Sunday school etc etc. It was engrained in my head at an early age that this is true. Much like Jewish children have beliefs that they are given.
Where is the absolute knowledge that Jesus is God? There are 5 wittnesses to his tomb being empty after the crucifiction. All 5 individuals give a different story of what they saw.
Here is some of what I've been reading from Dan Barker, a former fundamentalist minister who decided to test his faith and REALLY study the bible. Here is some of what he says about the resurrection story....
Who were the women who came to the tomb? Matthew said it was Mary Magdalen and the other Mary. Mark said it was Mary Magdalen, Mary the mother of James, and Salome. Luke said it was Mary Magdalen, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and other women. John said Mary Magdalen.
What was their purpose. Matthew said it was "to see the tomb." Mark said, no, they had already seen the tomb, it was to bring spices to anoint the body. Luke said they had already seen the tomb, and brought spices. John said the body had already been spiced, before they arrived.
Was the tomb open when they arrived? According to Matthew, it was not. The tomb was opened in their presence. But Mark, Luke, and John say, yeah, the tomb was open when they arrived. One of these guys is wrong. They both can't be right.
Who was at the tomb when they arrived? Mark said there was one "young man." Now, look at [how] this supports the evolutionary hypothesis here. Mark said there was one "young man." Luke said there was two men. Matthew said there was one angel, and John, the last writer, said, there's two angels. See what's happening here? See how the myth is growing and getting more exaggerated?
Where were these messengers situated? Matthew said there was an angel sitting on the stone. Mark said there was a young man sitting inside, on the right. Luke said there were two men standing inside. John said there were two angels, sitting on each end of the bed.
What did the messengers say? Now this is really strange, the messages are so different. In Matthew the angel, or the man, the angel said, "Go quickly, tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead. Behold he goeth before you into Galilee, there shall ye see him." Mark generally says the same thing, but Luke gets it backwards: "Remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, saying, The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men and be crucified and on the third day rise again?" This whole Galilee thing got twisted around. Luke was for a Jerusalem center of Christianity, so he downplayed Galilee. [In] John, what did the angel say? "Woman, why weepest thou?"
Did the women tell what happened after they left? Matthew said yes. Luke said yes: "They returned from the tomb and told all these things to the eleven and to all the rest." But Mark said, no: "And they went quickly and fled from the sepulchre, for they trembled and were amazed. Neither said they anything to any man, for they were afraid." One of these writers got it wrong. John said, yes, they did tell.
When Mary returned, did she know that Jesus had been resurrected? According to Matthew, Mark and Luke, yes; but according to John, she did not know that Jesus had been resurrected.
Did Mary first see Jesus before or after she returned to the disciples. Matthew and Mark say before, but John says after.
Could Jesus be touched after the Resurrection? Matthew says yes; John says no, but then John changes and said yes.
After the women, to which disciples did Jesus first appear? Matthew says to eleven disciples. Mark says it was to two disciples in the country, later to the eleven. Luke said it was to two disciples in Emmaus, and later to the eleven. John said it was to ten or eleven disciples. Paul said it was first to Peter, and then to the twelve.
Tim
You have so quickly placed your faith in Barker, and not the bible. If you or him would read the accounts carefully you could see it for yourself, not that hard to figure out.
How many Marys are there and when did they go to the tomb, not one place does it say that it could not have been more than one group. The accounts were written by different people with different perspectives. Like in Dallas when Kennedy was shot, all were there all tell the story of what they saw from their perspective.
A woman's witness would be of no consequence to Paul as their witness would not count. They had no status in the Jewish world, in his day listing a woman as a witness would have been foolish, that Paul never was.
Just because there are different times for these events you and Barker act like they happened instantly and at the same time. Read it for yourself and we can discuss it verse by verse.
But again you are putting your eternal life in the hands of Barker I have put mine in the hands of Jesus.
H
H.
I didn't mean to say I was putting my eternal life and faith into the hands of Dan Barker. In my searching I found some of his writings to be interesting. I'm considering what he said but I don't know for sure he's right.
Earlier you said that I must believe in God first and then start searching. Does this mean I should just believe Dan Barker? Or does that theory just apply to God?
You keep pushing me to the Bible. Unfortunatley the Bible only give one version of God. Obviously if I keep studying the bible and praying to that God, eventually I'll believe it! That's why you have really intelligent people in cults believing in Gods who live on other planets. If you study something long enough, without access to conflicting info, you'll brainwash yourself. I don't want to brainwash myself and become a Christian like Todd Friel or Ray Comfort and promote gay bashing, hitting your children and having your wife submit like a dog.
Thanks
Tim
Well Tim I guess this is where I say God resists the proud, so you will have to deal with God, our Lord Jesus, in the future. He will not even mention Todd or Ray He will only mention YOU and what YOU have to say for yourself. Now your eternal life is tied up in hating Todd and Ray I'm going to bet there is no God that will react to your proud spirit. That is why God is God by definition that puts Him in charge not you.
Good luck may God find you.
H
Who was Jesus, Tim?
H.
I don't mean this to be disrespectful, but I see your comments as a form of the brainwashing that religion does. Whenever I have a discussion about God with a "Born Again" Christian they follow the same script. At some point they all say that I don't believe because I'm too full of "pride". I really don't think I have that much pride. I really don't even like myself all that much. I'm just sick of not knowing if there's a God or not.
I don't hate Todd or Ray. I just feel saddened by their message I guess. My dad always presented Jesus as being this loving savior, who looked at each of us as his children. Todd and Ray have opened my eyes to what the bible really says about God and perhaps I just don't like it. They speak of a God who see's me not as a good person, but as a evil person. God is disgusted with everything I do. EVEN the good stuff. Todd told me in an email that when a person gets to heaven they will actually rejoice in knowing that many of the people we loved on earth are going to burn in hell. Because he says that in heaven we will appreciate the WILL of God and rejoice in it being carried out. When he said that I thought of my children and how much I love them. I cannot in my wildest dream imagine a time when I would cheer on their pain.
With that said, just because I don't at this time, like the discription of God, doesn't mean he doesn't exist. That's why I question.
Thanks
Tim
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Tim,
If there was a time that I found myself uncomfortable with what the bible says, I would very carefully consider why that is.
Is it because I am convicted?
Is it because I don't fully understand what it says?
Is it because it conflicts with what I have been taught?
Is is because it challenges my understanding of God?
These are rhetorical questions, not meant to challenge you as much as exhort you to examine yourself.
Hi Charles,
I officially feel like I'm in some sort of religious Blog theropy now. I'm just waiting for you guys to send me a large bill.
You asked some really good rhetorical questions. I would definately have to answer "yes" to nearly all of them. The one question you asked that made me think was about the Bible's description of God conflicting with my own understanding. I don't know where I heard this, but I recall reading or being told that if you seek God he/she will find you. There have been times in my life where I have done that. I've just surrendered and turned my life over to God. During those times I do think I felt a presence in my life and a serenity that I don't currently have. Was this really God or was it a state of mind? I don't know. If it was God, the God I experienced did not match the God of the Bible.
Where do I search for God? This is a question that seems to torrment me. (Maybe I need to up my meds. lol)
I apologize that I've turned this Blog into a counseling session for myself.
Thanks!
Tim
Post a Comment
<< Home